'09 NCNCA Master District Road and Criterium Championships

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2009 NCNCA Master District Road and Criterium Championships-

where are you going to stay?

Are you car camping or lodging locally here in Markleeville or in Minden?

We have lodging 1 mile from Diamond vly.

www.kylescabin.com 530-694-9691

come ride with us, www.triathlonresorts.com ,when you are in the area between April and November.

If you have questions about the area please contact us we would be glad to let you know what is going on in the neighborhood.

Shaun Bagley · Cat 5 Joined: 23 Feb 2009 Posts: 1

So why are we having our State Championships in Nevada every year? Kind of the same complaint as the Nationals in Kentucky. I don't want to drive 6 hours to do a 50 minute Criterium for a prizelist that most likely won't cover the entry fee for 1st place. Change it up a bit.

esaltzman · Cat 5 Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Posts: 8

I agree with Shaun. The people that put on the Diamond Valley/Minden weekend do a great job, but the location is very inconvenient for the vast majority of riders in the district and very few riders in the district are acclimated to the elevation of the road race.

If my memory is correct (I am getting old after all), the Masters districts road race moved to Nevada from Fort Ord to avoid a conflict with Nationals that year. Since Nationals are now in early July, there is no reason to continue putting the districts in such a remote location.

Eric

bunny · Cat 4 Joined: 11 Mar 2008 Posts: 80

I don't want to drive 6 hours to do a 50 minute Criterium for a prizelist that most likely won't cover the entry fee for 1st place.

i agree that it makes sense to move things around, but we should keep in mind that people who live in nevada have to drive 6 hours for races almost every weekend.

but if you are looking for a good payout, you should do a different race
as the prize at districts is the title of "district champion"

JRB431 · Cat 4 Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Posts: 14

Ah jeez, this old complaint again. Seems like we have this discussion every couple of years.

First of all, the road race IS in California (albeit fairly close to the state line). Second, as I've pointed out before in relation to other issues on this forum, the second N in NCNCA stands for --- hmmmm, let me think for a minute -- oh yeah, NEVADA.

As for the altitude complaint, the obvious trade-off is that, while you CA lowlanders are happily training and racing from Jan-March, we're trying to squeeze in rides during the two hours each day when it might be above 40 degrees (assuming there's not 3 inches of snow on the ground).

Same goes for the long drive complaint. Heaven forbid that WE get to sleep in our own beds the night before the race.

esaltzman · Cat 5 Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Posts: 8

Maybe Casey can jump in with actual numbers, but I don't think I am going out on a limb to say that if you drew a line just east of Sacramento the vast majority (90%+ ?) of the riders in the district live west of that line. This puts them at close to sea level and a significant distance from the current location of Masters districts.

I am not suggesting that there should be no races in the Sierra's, only that putting the district championships so far from the highest concentration of riders every year does not make sense. The district races should have some of the largest fields of the year, not some of the smallest. The fields are small because it is too difficult and time consuming for most people to bother.

At a minimum, I would like to see the location rotated so we have a variety of locations and course types. This is the same request as moving nationals around the country. As Shaun mentioned, part of the impetus for
this discussion was the frustration of parking nationals in Louisville for three years in a row.

I want to reiterate that the suggestion to move districts is not a complaint about the race organizers. They run a good event although they seem to have trouble getting the highway patrol to get to the road race on time. Not running the weekend as districts would allow the organizers to accommodate other categories because they would not need to run Masters races in 5 year increments. This would probably increase the overall attendance/income from the event. (I am willing to bet they would get a lot more riders in an Elite 4 or Elite 5 race than they get in the several of the Masters categories.)

Eric

bunny · Cat 4 Joined: 11 Mar 2008 Posts: 80

it is hard to figure sometimes--clearly more riders would attend an event in the bay area.

yet there are a lot of norcal riders planning on going up to cascades instead of districts and that is a longer drive so the distance isn't always the deciding factor.

how is the decision made as to where this event takes place? does a promoter have to put in a proposal to be the championship event?

Griff187 · Cat 5 Joined: 12 Sep 2008 Posts: 7

Same logic and argument applies to the District TT Championships in Sattley. That location is convenient for a very small percentage of riders in the NCNCA district. With fewer riders in the race, I'd say the race is less competitive and less representative of the district. I like the idea of changing the venue every several years.

ZebraMan · Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:27 pm Post subject:

Agreed.

The DV/Minden weekend are great races, but it's sort of silly to have our state championship be two of the most remote races of the season, and at altitude where there is an obvious locals bias.

The Cascade argument ignores that the Classic is probably the best stage race of the year in this section of the country. In any case, there really aren't that many masters from this region going to Cascade - not even enough to support separate fields for the 35's and 45's. Maybe there are 20-25 master guys from NorCal?

Besides the remoteness argument and the convenience argument for an annual location rotation, how about a specialization argument? It's the same two courses every year determining the champs. If Cooperopolis was the Masters RR Championship we'd likely have a different champion than if it was held at Dunnigan Hills or San Ardo. If the c-ship crit was in a corporate park you'd likely have a different winner than at - uh - lets' say - NAPA.

Why not have a system of annual selection?

GFMeilahn · Cat 2 Joined: 15 Mar 2006 Posts: 293 Location: Antioch, CA

Perhaps the promoters might consider rotating the RR and Crit between Saturday and Sunday. This could bring more lodging to the Nevada side in the much more populous Minden, NV. Then some categories of masters with a later start on a Saturday criterium could do their "six hour drive" that morning, instead of the night before (which is often the case now).

casey · Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject:

Every year when we send out the race scheduling form there is a question on there asking if a promoter is interested in hosting a District championship. The few times when we get someone other than the established races that expresses interest in hosting a district championship is is a vague interest with a notation along the line of " yes we are interested in being the 35+ championship event. Currently there is no other event that holds all the different age groups for master men and women in a crit. This means that for a new event to be selected a promoter is going to have to step forward and commit to running all of the different age groups for men and women. To date no promoter has stepped up to do that. Also there has never been a promoter who has stepped up to offer a weekend package for both the RR and the Crit championship. Sure we could offer two completely different races, one as the RR and one as the Crit but that would most likely mean having two different weekends to travel to who knows where so the total travel time might not be that different for people going to both events.

So just like with nationals it depends on having a promoter who is willing to hold the race and offer all the categories we want to see in the masters championship. If someone approached the NCNCA with a serious proposal that committed to having all the age groups for men and women we would consider moving the event but so far no such proposal has come along.

The same argument as above also goes for the time trial. with a addition of a course issue for the time trial championships. Believe me we have looked for other courses closer in for the TT championship and we have even had the TT championship on a different course a few times. The problems are no other course is really good in terms of race length, traffic flatness etc. Also the Sattly course has been surveyed so that if someone rides a national record time on that course the record can be accepted by USAC. At sea level there is probably no chance of a national record time being ridden and I don't think anyone is going to put out the substantial cost of surveying the course in advance on the slim chance a record might be set on a new course.

JRB431 · Cat 4 Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Posts: 14

I'm not a zealot on this issue and I concede that there are many valid arguments against holding the Master's championships in DV/Minden every year. But here's a response to a few points made above:

Altitude: Higher altitude means cooler temps. If the race is still going to be in late July. 70-80 degrees at 5500' feet makes more sense than 105 degrees in the Central Valley (if the race is indeed going to be "centrally-located). Remember, "masters" includes 65+.

Lodging: Rooms in Reno/Carson are less expensive than Bay Area, and more available than most Central Valley locations.

Course Type: The beauty of the DV course is that it's neither a climber's course, nor a sprinter's course. Generally need to be a pretty strong "all around" rider to prevail. Certainly, every type of rider should have racing opportunities throughout the year on courses that will meet his/her strength, but I think it makes sense to have the "championship" on a course that will give ANY type of rider a shot.

esaltzman · Cat 5 Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Posts: 8

Please allow me to make a few comments on the recent posts:

To my knowledge, Masters is the only age group in NCNV that has the road and criterium championships on the same weekend. Acknowledging this is completely personal preference, I would be happier to have the events on separate dates. Particularly as I get older (like most masters), recovery between the events is preferable.

The problem with using the same course every year is that it suits the same type of rider. Diamond Valley is definitely a good course for an all around rider, but that is a type of rider just like a climber or a sprinter.

Weather is certainly a valid consideration, but can be addressed by the date of the event, which does not have to be the same every year. Even in the summer, it is frequently cooler at some of the coastal locations (Fort Ord, Pescadero, Spring Hill, etc) than it is at Diamond Valley.

Eric

KevinMetcalfe · Cat 4 Joined: 10 Jun 2006 Posts: 59

JRB431 · Cat 4 Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Posts: 14